by Max Barry

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Region: The Great Experiment

Pekares wrote:God probably does not exist, but people are free to believe God does.[...]

Anti centrist unity wrote:how would anything exist at all what would make it if u say dust what mad that nothing

Pekares wrote:Well in that case. What created God?

Anti centrist unity wrote:God was never made he was always there

Pekares wrote:Then that allows me to claim all what is in our universe was always there. Gods are something humans have created in order to explain things they can't explain themselves.

Anti centrist unity wrote:no because science actually so it’s different rules to what we are saying

Pekares wrote:How could there be different rules. Science tries to find the rules, whereas religion creates the rules from nowhere in order to fit their belief.

Oh Pekares. I know where you came from when you wrote: "Then that allows me to claim all what is in our universe was always there." (1)
It is in line with your next sentence: "Gods are something humans have created in order to explain things they can't explain themselves." (2)
You thought that when a Theist says "God was never made he was always there" (3), they are making up an answer for existence from nowhere.
That is why you said (1). Because you thought it was a claim made from nowhere. You thought that because there was no direct proof of it, it could not be a reasonable claim. But in Philosophy class they had asked the question: "If a tree falls in a forest, but no one is there to witness the event, can you be certain that there was noise as the tree fell?". Your philosophy seems to say no. Yet, I remember that you answered yes. This is because you were certain in physical laws. But fellow self, you did not understand the claim and argument.
When your future self agrees with (3), it is on a wider level of understanding. They are no longer limiting themselves to the physical world for understanding reality. Ask yourself if consciousness exists in the physical world. Are your thoughts material? They might possibly be caused by material things, but they are not material. They exist somewhere else. That is the way it seems to your future self.
Furthermore on (3). God is not merely someone who operates. I'm pretty certain you didn't think of God as a man in the clouds. You were able to see Him as something more. Yet, you didn't see Him to the same extent that you would understand Him later. God is not just an almighty being that operates, and which therefore could be subject to the question "What created God?". No, not just this. God is Existence itself. You will be convinced rationally, that if something exists it ought to exist through Existence itself. Unless Existence exists, there is no such thing as existence. You will furthermore think, that if Existence exists and is able to give existence to other things, it ought to be able to operate. If Existence can operate, it ought to be able to will to operate. Therefore, Existence must have free will. If Existence has free will, it will seem that Existence necessarily operates this free will Perfectly. How could Existence operate incorrectly, when there is no other thing than itself? Therefore Existence is Perfect, and this is what you will understand as God. That God is necessarily Perfect in all regards. Perfectly good, Perfectly just, Perfectly merciful, Perfectly loving, Perfectly true, Perfectly beautiful etc. Simply Perfectly Perfect. You will think therefore, that God is Goodness itself, Justice itself, Mercy itself, Love itself, Truth itself, Beauty itself. You will see that God is simply God, and because of this God simply exists. Whether you think that God exists or not, God remains there.
You will recognise that this line of reasoning is not something you've directly learned, but something that you first knew in your own mind, and for that reason it can be faulty. Yet, you will not doubt that (3) is a valid statement, as it aligns with the definition of God.
Oh Pekares. Whatever view a person holds in their mind, will necessarily seem logical to that person in their understanding of the world. This logic flows from the basic premises you make. If you assume there is nothing but the physical world, then you will necessarily conclude certain things, as they logically flow from that premise. If you assume that there at least might be something more than the physical world, you will have access to a different set of conclusions. Respect the views of other people for this reason, and have patience with them. Recognise that if you can't find agreement or understanding it is because you have such different premises, and your conclusions simply are incompatible with the premises of the other person. Sometimes it will be necessary to damage the premises of another person in order to make them see the world differently.

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