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Anybody after 40 years has got to go.lol
I think the last point is a really good one
"In Libya, a lower percentage of people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands. (About 7%; SA about 50%)."
I dont think anything was "seriously wrong" but I certainly think after 40 years everybody's sick of this guy.
of coure Qaddafi was also waging a war against bedouin culture, the exiling of almost 300,000 egyptians in the 70's , Became a war monger going against Chad and Egypt. This guy is no socialist just another backwater dictator in colourfull robes, And libya is a nice place with wonderfull people but I wouldnt attribute all of that to Qaddafi
I agree Zeleznegrad. He wasnt a socialist.
But an important anti-imperialist and outspoken against american imperialism in the region that stood up that the UN/G8/G20 should include developing nations allso. I look at Lybia the way I look at Iran.
Good for them for throwing out the monarchy and establishing a peoples state...but as Iran's revolutiona was hijacked for Islam the Lybian rev was hijacked for Khaddafi's brand of tribal "lybianism" 40 years ogo.
Both revolutions started good...niether ended well
Nationstates Economies
The game may call a public sector economy a "failure" or "Imploded" but there is nothing wrong with these policies.
A public sector job is funded by taxes in a capitalist nation, but in a socialist nation the profit pays the workers, the state is only there to distribute it equally or semi equally.
Capitalism or free markets/private sectore economy works so that the profit pays the capitalist/owner then the capitalist doles out wages for the workers from the profit he made (from their labour)
See the problem? We dont need the capitalist who enriches himself at the expence of the workers....what we (the workers) create belongs to us.
We make "commodities" a natural resorse when having labour applied becomes a "commodity" the commodity is worth 10-100 time the cost of the material...it is the labour that creats the wealth. That is why labour is so important to socialists/communists because that is where the "Value" is made.
The real criminal part of capitalism is
"what happens to the left over profits from the commodities after the labour is paid"?
"it goes to the allready rich capitalist"
"what happens to the left over profits from the commodities after the labour is paid under socialism"?
"it goes to the state to build public services from sidewalks to roads, libraries and schools ect..ect.."
These two small paragraphs should clear any oppisition not like there is any here....but I mean when discussion on economies come up remember that..
Regardless of how 'prosperous' Gaddafi's Libya was, I'd prefer the man gone...
That said, I'd also prefer no imperialist involvement, because that'd be just another form of injustice for the Libyan people
I wouldnt mind if the libyans were shipped a few cases of Ak-74's and Medical & Food Rat's and therby make their own revolution.
Well Communist Party NS, how can you say Qadaffi is an anti-imperialist when as Zelznegrad correctly pointed out that Qadaffi 'became a war monger against Chad and Egypt?' We must have no truck with imperialism fighting imperialism.
No to foreign intervention,(including sanctions)(imperialist intervention)
No to Qadaffi (also an imperialist)
Yes to the Libyan people overthrowing the Qadaffi regime!
Yes to the Arab revolutionary spirit.
With Communist greetings
CJ
I think, Comrades, we should put the Discussion down and cheerfully sing the Hymn of the Soviet Union to Build Unity. Come on, i'll start!
Soyuz nyerushimyiy ryespublik svobodnyikh
Splotila navyeki Vyelikaya Rus’.
Da zdravstvuyet sozdannyiy volyey narodov
Yedinyiy, moguchiy Sovyetskiy Soyuz!
Slavsya, Otyechyestvo nashye svobodnoye,
Druzhbyi narodov nadyozhnyiy oplot,
Znamya sovyetskoye, znamya narodnoye
Pust’ ot pobyedyi k pobyedye vyedyot!
Skvoz’ grozyi siyalo nam solntsye svobodye,
I Lyenin vyelikiy nam put’ ozaril,
Nas vyirastil Stalin – na vyernost’ narodu,
Na trud i na podvigi nas vdokhnovil!
Uinted Communist of Africa and Conference of japan
the only foreign aid I say they need is the means to their own revolution. A revolution cannot succed on spirit alone you need bullets to back it up
"Well Communist Party NS, how can you say Qadaffi is an anti-imperialist when as Zelznegrad correctly pointed out that Qadaffi 'became a war monger against Chad and Egypt?' We must have no truck with imperialism fighting imperialism."
Of course he has not allways been revolutionary but when the soviet union was around Khadaffi was a good speaker for the secular people of Lybia. As a nation that is in the region on Islamic exreamism and fundamentalist action Lybia has been a stronghold for womens rights and human rights in this area.
The Khaddaffi regime allso had a more fair share of the wealth than most in the region.
Comrade Parti Ouvreir, I think you should ask his compatriots what they think of Khadaffi's anti-imperialism, he is good friends with both Chavez and Fidel Castro the holders of the banner of anti-imperialism
The war with Egypt was certainly not imperialist as it was protecting arab rights and influance against the corrupt american influanced Egyptian Gov. On Chad I really dont know the situation.....but to say that Khadaffi has done nothing in the name of anti-imperialism is a lie....from standing for Palestine to demanding an end to the foreign occupation of Iraq and the Afghan, as well as offering women profound rights in the arabic world Khadaffi's regime is over and we're happy but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Secular huh? ever hear about the Five Points adress? Full Implementation of sharia law which I assure of this is not good for any one close to secular. as for egypt it was a for Gaddafis personal power, Or his wish to look pretty for the USSR he started the march and cairo and the Egyptian Military slaughtered them, As for the Chad War over the Aouzou, That is imperialism if I have ever seen it, Qaddaffi wanted Aouzou so he sent troops there And he did this from 78 to 87 this was no skirmish like egypt it was protracted war of libyan aggression. even before that Qaddafi had many times before 78 tried his hand with chads civil war trying to gain favour of the warring factions and actually intervening and sending troops to protect his interests (sounds like another nation I know). I will not say he did nothing for anti_imperalism but at the least he is a Hypocratic dictator and a bloodthirsty man
sorry for the DP but for those wondering about the Fiqh in Libya it is Maliki and in a small portion of the country Ibadi
On the situation in Libya
The World Federation of Democratic Youth has watched the recent developments in and about Libya with deep concern and alarm.It is terrible for WFDY that the answer to the Libyan people demands and street demonstrations has been repression and, in many cases, death of the protestors.
This deserves from us our full condemnation as it is unacceptable and represents a violation of the basic rights of expression and freedom of association, inherent to all peoples of the world.
At the same time, it is for WFDY alarming that, under these circumstances, the imperialist powers (USA and EU) gathered in NATO have launched, through the dominating media, a campaign to justify an external intervention in that country, under the pretext of “defending the protestors’ rights.”
In this moment, it is important to underline that never NATO or any of its members cared when in Yemen or Bahrain (allies of the imperialist powers) brutally represses the protesters in those countries. Furthermore, it is a total hypocrisy that those same countries (particularly in EU) with high level relation with the government of Libya are now pretending to be historical enemies of Khadafi ruling of the country.
In this situation, WFDY calls for a peaceful understanding between all parts inside Libya and totally rejects any sort any sort of exterior interference, particularly, any sort of military intervention, as we believe that only the Libyan people is able to solve its own problems and an intervention from NATO or any military block could only mean death and stealing of resources, as happened in Iraq or Afghanistan.-World Federation of Democratic Youth
Comrade Zeleznegrad I am not fully informed on Lybian history and I appreciate the lesson, are you sure Lybia has full implementation of Sharia Law?!? Anyway my point origionally was to just play devils advocate to all those who criminalise without the information "no investigation no right to speak"-mao, so to speak...but maybe you taught me this as well?
We cannot blindly mimmick the calls of the west without investigation, I think my "How bad was Lybia under Khadaffi" (above) was just a call to look into some of the facts, and Im sure someone learned something.
my stance on the Whole Arab Revolutions topic is short and sweet, and in Spanish: Viva La Revolucion!
ah its good to learn the Middle east has often been my focus, Its a long sad story and I am happier so much happier than many about this recent wave of revolution its just I just want to see another Afganistan happen, Where things were bad to begin with, got better and then got a thousand times worse. And as for the Fiqh in libya Qaddafis Islamist Revival in the five points adress put full implementation of sharia in, However its still pretty standard dictatorship laws added in the usual stuff (shutting out presses censorship imprisonment that kind of stuff, and maliki sharia can be a bit harsh Which is certaintly not helping the situation with more Harcore islamist courts handing out some nasty punishments.
"As a region, USSR is ranked 6,765th in the world for Largest Retail Sector."
Lol only like 3 other regions are below the USSR
I'm glad to be very low on this census report
Post self-deleted by Tikimana.
I am honored to be among the 99.6th percentile.
And, uh, somehow there are 4 other nations here who ranked lower than me!!
Zeleznegrad, your information about the Middle East was helpful and I learnt something too! Now comrade Communist Party NS, I mostly agree with your last post, however I take issue with your uncritical support for the left-nationalist Chavez. May I direct you to this article here.
'Hugo Chávez backs his friend Muammar Gaddafi'
'Chávez by this act has further exposed his politics as having more in common with the fake “anti-imperialists” of the stripe of the Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmedinejad or Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe - who have shamelessly flattered one another in recent years. But to paint up Gaddafi as any sort of anti-imperialist when he has been in bed with Britain and France over the last decade - doing their every bidding is frankly ridiculous.' See the full article here:
http://www.fifthinternational.org/content/hugo-chavez-backs-his-friend-muammar-gaddafi
Greetings comrades! XD
I am new to the region, I was wandering if there is a stable regional government here?
Wandering is an "0" not an"a"
Parti Ouvrier
I strongly caution lumping Chavez and the PCV in with the Islamic republic of Iran, or Mgabe. The PSUV and the PCV have brought great working class power to Venezuela from nationalising the oil resorses, to paying women for housework (to bring up the equality of the sexes). Not to slander your website comrade but it seems a little "ultra-leftist" or Trotskiest, in its opinion. In fact Feb 10 2011 10,000 workers marched in downtown Caracas to support the governments social policies and to push for further advances in workers rights and working conditions. "never in the political history of our country has the working class had such posibilities for social inclusion" declared Wills Rangel, President of the "United federation of oil workers"
Since the start of the Bolivarian revolution Venezuelans have seen a five fold increase in pensions, a large decrease in unemployment, and one of the highest minimum wages in South America. 60% of the nations national budjet is now spent on Social services.Not to mention 3000 unions have been formed in the last 12 years since the revolution.
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