by Max Barry

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Lutheran Commonwealth wrote:I think the future of Christianity, for many at least, will be to keep it within their families. To pass it on, from generation to generation, without having any formal church building, or congregation that is registered by the state they're living in.

I think the solution is to have as many books available as possible, within the family, about the Christian denomination and its theology, that they belong to, to keep the information intact as the time goes on. And to live the daily life, as a Christian, showing your fruits. Your faith is in your heart, and not somewhere external. It comes from within.

You have the means of home schooling available, where the parents will be able to learn them and bring them up in the faith. Where there is a lot of resources available on the internet too, these days.

I think Christianity will go into another form, where it will lose its formal character within the society. And it's nothing that stops believers, within the same area, to meet at someone's private house and to have a gathering, to have Bible studies, to have Christian worship.

Just look at China and how Christians are looked upon there. Probably something similar will arrive in the West too. And constitutions can be changed, as long as the majority of the population supports it. So I believe the Christian faith will be more underground, publicly speaking, more than ever in the future.

Though I am not too clued into it, what your suggesting is essentially something like the Benedict Option, a small yet committed Church and this may be the way to go if the culture does not abandon secular relativism, which it may still do.

It may come the point where it will need to be a few close knit families which becomes the Church in towns and in certain areas of cities, centered around a church. Maybe even creating a commune.

Lutheran Commonwealth and Under ledzia

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/28/colorado-coronavirus-economy-budget-politics-opinion/

The great indohe empire

-.-

The Catholic State of Eire wrote:Though I am not too clued into it, what your suggesting is essentially something like the Benedict Option, a small yet committed Church and this may be the way to go if the culture does not abandon secular relativism, which it may still do.

It may come the point where it will need to be a few close knit families which becomes the Church in towns and in certain areas of cities, centered around a church. Maybe even creating a commune.

I wasn't aware of the Benedict Option and I've just read about it on Wikipedia, which was interesting. But I think today in many societies, and especially in the future, you will need to keep your faith to yourself, to be able to get a job. Without a job, no income, which is a powerful tool for the governments and the elite to control religion. And not just religion, but all things the government wants to get rid of in the population, when it comes to thoughts or conceptions.

Which is why I was mentioning that the Christian faith would then need to be more underground. Because Christians too want to survive.

I'm of course very pessimistic here, thinking the worst for the future, but you might as well be prepared for it, in my opinion.

Plus I think Christianity will be looked upon as a mythology only, in a bigger and bigger degree, as the time goes on, which will be hard for many Christians to face. Being looked upon as a lunatic or someone stupid, losing the respect from other people.

The Catholic State of Eire and Under ledzia

I get people have a right to be angry but they have no right to destroy, plunder, and attack people and businesses. Hopefully the riots will settle down, it's certainly not a good look.

The Gallant Old Republic, Phydios, Stellonia, Under ledzia, and 1 otherThe holy hobos of the holy land

United massachusetts

The Rouge Christmas State wrote:I get people have a right to be angry but they have no right to destroy, plunder, and attack people and businesses. Hopefully the riots will settle down, it's certainly not a good look.

In any case, I don't believe people should be more angry at these protests than they are at the fact that three unarmed black people were killed by law enforcement this week alone, or that a police officer kneeled on George Floyd for eight minutes as he suffocated to death, or how that police officer decided to continue for five minutes after Floyd went unconscious. And I certainly don't believe people should be more angry at the protests than at the fact that the President of the United States used the words of a 1960s segregationist to call for shooting protesters in the streets.

How many times do unarmed black men have to say "I can't breathe" before people get the message? I do not blame the protesters -- I blame the system that caused this to happen, a system wherein black mothers have to teach their boys how to not get killed when dealing with the police.

A riot is the language of the unheard. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

United massachusetts wrote:-snip-

I am angry at the men who used unwarranted force and tactics not approved by their department to subdue another man, leading to his death. I am glad that they have all been fired. I hope that they are all held criminally responsible for George Floyd's death. I am no less angry at the rioting that seems to define anti-racism protests today. It doesn't work. It leads only to more hate, to people who seek to make the oppressor the oppressed in the distorted belief that that would be justice. The only way to stop the vicious cycle of hatred is to sit down and refuse to respond to violence with violence. Such an approach is powerful- and unpopular.

It is interesting that you would quote that line from MLK, since he has gone down in history as a staunch supporter of nonviolent protests. So I looked up its source, and indeed, MLK believed in nonviolent protesting until the day he died. Contrary to what the line, taken out of context, would imply, he believed that riots were self-defeating and socially destructive. He knew that violence could never create anything, only destroy.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mlk-a-riot-is-the-language-of-the-unheard/

REV. MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. (speech): Now what I'm saying is this: I would like for all of us to believe in non-violence, but I'm here to say tonight that if every Negro in the United States turns against non-violence, I'm going to stand up as a lone voice and say, "This is the wrong way!"

KING (interview): I will never change in my basic idea that non-violence is the most potent weapon available to the Negro in his struggle for freedom and justice. I think for the Negro to turn to violence would be both impractical and immoral.

MIKE WALLACE: There's an increasingly vocal minority who disagree totally with your tactics, Dr. King.

KING: There's no doubt about that. I will agree that there is a group in the Negro community advocating violence now. I happen to feel that this group represents a numerical minority. Surveys have revealed this. The vast majority of Negroes still feel that the best way to deal with the dilemma that we face in this country is through non-violent resistance, and I don't think this vocal group will be able to make a real dent in the Negro community in terms of swaying 22 million Negroes to this particular point of view. And I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years.

WALLACE: How many summers like this do you imagine that we can expect?

KING: Well, I would say this: we don't have long. The mood of the Negro community now is one of urgency, one of saying that we aren't going to wait. That we've got to have our freedom. We've waited too long. So that I would say that every summer we're going to have this kind of vigorous protest. My hope is that it will be non-violent. I would hope that we can avoid riots because riots are self-defeating and socially destructive. I would hope that we can avoid riots, but that we would be as militant and as determined next summer and through the winter as we have been this summer. And I think the answer about how long it will take will depend on the federal government, on the city halls of our various cities, and on White America to a large extent. This is where we are at this point, and I think White America will determine how long it will be and which way we go in the future.

WALLACE: Even Sen. Jacob Javits asked the question recently. He said that he was a slum resident, but he and some of his fellow Jews were able to make it out of the ghetto on the lower East Side of New York. The same thing is true with lots of Irish, Italians, and he asked the question why the Negro finds it so difficult to make his own way up out of the ghetto? You did.

KING: Number one, no other racial group has been a slave on American soil. It's nice to say other people were down and they got up. They were not slaves on American soil. The other thing is that the Negro has had high visibility, and because of the prejudices existing in this country his color has been against him. It's been against him and they've used this to keep him from moving up. In the final analysis, when you say to a man that you are in this position because of your race or because of your color, you say to that man that he can never get out of it. Other racial groups have been able maybe to change their accent or to change their names, but the Negro can't.

Lots of good thoughts here. He knew that there was a problem. He knew that it had to be addressed immediately. But he also knew that violence is the worst possible way to deal with your anger over continued injustice. He had an excellent way of frankly acknowledging the problems with American society without contributing to them, most likely shaped by his Christlike commitment to loving even his worst enemies. I really need to read more from him.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr. (Check out the quotes from his book Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?, written as violent protests were gaining popularity in the civil rights movement.)

"Nowhere have the riots won any concrete improvement such as have the organized protest demonstrations. When one tries to pin down advocates of violence as to what acts would be effective, the answers are blatantly illogical. Sometimes they talk of overthrowing racist state and local governments and they talk about guerrilla warfare. They fail to see that no internal revolution has ever succeeded in overthrowing a government by violence unless the government had already lost the allegiance and effective control of its armed forces. Anyone in his right mind knows that this will not happen in the United States. Furthermore, few, if any, violent revolutions have been successful unless the violent minority had the sympathy and support of the non-resisting majority."

"It is perfectly clear that a violent revolution on the part of American blacks would find no sympathy and support from the white population and very little from the majority of Negroes themselves. This is no time for romantic illusions and empty philosophical debates about freedom. This is a time for action. What is needed is a strategy for change, a tactical program that will bring the Negro into the mainstream of American life as quickly as possible. So far, this has only been offered by the nonviolent movement. Without recognizing this we will end up with solutions that don't solve, answers that don't answer and explanations that don't explain."

"I say to you today that I still stand by nonviolence. And I am still convinced that it is the most potent weapon available to the Negro in his struggle for justice in this country. And the other thing is that I am concerned about a better world. I'm concerned about justice. I'm concerned about brotherhood. I'm concerned about truth. And when one is concerned about these, he can never advocate violence. For through violence you may murder a murderer but you can't murder murder. Through violence you may murder a liar but you can't establish truth. Through violence you may murder a hater, but you can't murder hate. Darkness cannot put out darkness. Only light can do that."

"I know that love is ultimately the only answer to mankind's problems. And I'm going to talk about it everywhere I go. I know it isn't popular to talk about it in some circles today. I'm not talking about emotional bosh when I talk about love, I'm talking about a strong, demanding love. And I have seen too much hate. I've seen too much hate on the faces of sheriffs in the South. I've seen hate on the faces of too many Klansmen and too many White Citizens Councilors in the South to want to hate myself, because every time I see it, I know that it does something to their faces and their personalities and I say to myself that hate is too great a burden to bear. I have decided to love. If you are seeking the highest good, I think you can find it through love. And the beautiful thing is that we are moving against wrong when we do it, because John was right, God is love. He who hates does not know God, but he who has love has the key that unlocks the door to the meaning of ultimate reality."

"Let us be dissatisfied until America will no longer have a high blood pressure of creeds and an anemia of deeds.
Let us be dissatisfied until the tragic walls that separate the outer city of wealth and comfort from the inner city of poverty and despair shall be crushed by the battering rams of the forces of justice.
Let us be dissatisfied until those who live on the outskirts of hope are brought into the metropolis of daily security.
Let us be dissatisfied until slums are cast into the junk heaps of history, and every family will live in a decent, sanitary home.
Let us be dissatisfied until the dark yesterdays of segregated schools will be transformed into bright tomorrows of quality integrated education.
Let us be dissatisfied until integration is not seen as a problem but as an opportunity to participate in the beauty of diversity.
Let us be dissatisfied until men and women, however black they may be, will be judged on the basis of the content of their character, not on the basis of the color of their skin. Let us be dissatisfied.
Let us be dissatisfied until every state capitol will be housed by a governor who will do justly, who will love mercy, and who will walk humbly with his God.

Let us be dissatisfied until from every city hall, justice will roll down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. Let us be dissatisfied until that day when the lion and the lamb shall lie down together, and every man will sit under his own vine and fig tree and none shall be afraid. Let us be dissatisfied. And men will recognize that out of one blood God made all men to dwell upon the face of the earth. Let us be dissatisfied until that day when nobody will shout "White Power!" — when nobody will shout "Black Power!" — but everybody will talk about God's power and human power."

The Rouge Christmas State wrote:I get people have a right to be angry but they have no right to destroy, plunder, and attack people and businesses. Hopefully the riots will settle down, it's certainly not a good look.

United massachusetts wrote:In any case, I don't believe people should be more angry at these protests than they are at the fact that three unarmed black people were killed by law enforcement this week alone, or that a police officer kneeled on George Floyd for eight minutes as he suffocated to death, or how that police officer decided to continue for five minutes after Floyd went unconscious. And I certainly don't believe people should be more angry at the protests than at the fact that the President of the United States used the words of a 1960s segregationist to call for shooting protesters in the streets.

Upon reflection, I hope everybody here can agree that (1) recklessly killing a person is a very serious crime, (2) arson is a serious crime, and (3) making inflammatory comments on social media is not a crime.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.562

In a proper hierarchy of values, murder is worse than arson, and arson is worse than offensiveness.

United massachusetts

Phydios: I would certainly agree that MLK was always a supporter of non-violence. I agree with all that you say (to that end, I've liked your post), and I don't support violence in any way. Having said that, MLK acknowledged the pain and the grief in communities that leads to this sort of violence. When we get angry at people responding violently after not being heard for years upon years and continuing to see the death of unarmed black men by law enforcement, we ought to remember to systematic problems that lead to this violence. This violence would not exist without a systematic racism against black Americans. If George Floyd was white, he would still be alive. If Ahmad Aubrey was white, we would still be alive. I don't believe that riots are the right way to go about fighting that systemic racism, but I don't believe there can be an equivalence. There wasn't one at Charlottesville and there isn't one here. In any case, I really hear where you're coming from -- I really do. But I also hear the voices of those who do not feel safe in their own country and for whom non-violent protest has brought nothing but neglect.

Culture of Life wrote:Upon reflection, I hope everybody here can agree that (1) recklessly killing a person is a very serious crime, (2) arson is a serious crime, and (3) making inflammatory comments on social media is not a crime.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.562

In a proper hierarchy of values, murder is worse than arson, and arson is worse than offensiveness.

The President of the United States has special obligations. When his words incite violence against US Citizens, that is something to be furious about. It's not just the offensiveness of Trump quoting segregationists to respond to a series of lynchings -- it's that he's actively inciting violence against American citizens.

Post self-deleted by United massachusetts.

United massachusetts:
As I said earlier, MLK did certainly acknowledge the anger that simmers in black communities, and the necessity of addressing it immediately. But he always encouraged protestors to commit themselves to nonviolence, because it worked, and because violence only produced more violence. To paraphrase another quote from him, you can burn down a police department, but you cannot burn down hatred, or murder, or dehumanization. You can only add to it.

Racism exists today. It always will, until the day of Jesus' Second Coming. And it must be addressed. (My pastor, who has spoken out quite deliberately against the racial injustices in the nation, has had some people ask whether he's become a liberal. That's a terrible line of thought. We cannot bury our heads in the sand and ignore the problem.) We can give thanks that racism is no longer enshrined in our nation's laws, but legislation does not change hearts. It never has and never will. Only God can do that. So we grieve over these tragedies, we address them frankly, and we find a constructive path forward. I recognize the grief that hardens into anger in some people and leads them to rioting, but violence is counterproductive and morally destructive. It never brings about the right kind of change- it only seeks to do unto others what they have done to you, in some measure.

As for Trump, he has a long history of making a fool of himself on social media. He doesn't appear to think before he speaks. He shows none of the professionalism that I expect from the President. I've heard that he's polite and respectful in private, but this brash, arrogant persona is how he'll be remembered. And it's not a good look. He could be his own worst enemy in the coming election.

Culture of Life, Horatius Cocles, and United massachusetts

I was reading an article on Forbes about police shootings and it had this to say:

"Since January 01, 2015, 4,728 people have died in police shootings and around half, 2,385, were white. 1,252 were black, 877 were Hispanic and 214 were from other racial groups. As a share of the population, however, things are very different. Black Americans account for less than 13% of the U.S. population but the rate at which they are shot and killed by police is more than twice as high as the rate for white Americans."

However, I never trust statistics since they are misleading more often than not, especially is used by the media or politicians where they are basically scientific-sounding lies over 90% of the time. In this case, this line particularly concerns me:
"The data refers specifically to police shootings and it relies primarily on news accounts, social media postings and police reports."
That's vague, but it doesn't sound like a very good way of getting accurate numbers.

*also another reason to distrust it: by my own math about 26% of those cases reported are against blacks, but while 13% of the US population is black, the percent is close to 20% in urban areas nationwide and, as everyone knows, most police activity and shootings take place in urban areas.

United massachusetts wrote:The President of the United States has special obligations. When his words incite violence against US Citizens, that is something to be furious about. It's not just the offensiveness of Trump quoting segregationists to respond to a series of lynchings -- it's that he's actively inciting violence against American citizens.

I don't know what goes on inside the President's head. He could be malicious, or he could be misinformed. And he's constantly saying contradictory things. On one hand, he says things that inflame passions. On the other hand, he says, "I don't want this [violence] to happen."

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/500159-trump-seeks-to-explain-looting-leads-to-shooting-tweet-that-sparked

To make matters worse, he never apologizes for anything.

He seems to have a Jekyll and Hyde personality. It's not clear to me what he really believes (if anything at all).

Congratulations to Elon Musk and his company on the development of a functioning rocket!

Aawia, Horatius Cocles, Phydios, The Rouge Christmas State, and 3 othersThe Catholic State of Eire, Under ledzia, and The holy hobos of the holy land

Wow... Look at the stats of Under Ledzia... USA move over... We've got a new land of the free...

Culture of Life wrote:Congratulations to Elon Musk and his company on the development of a functioning rocket!

This is huge. For the first time since 2011, Americans launched into space from American soil on an American spacecraft. Musk wants to have unmanned cargo missions to Mars within two years, and manned missions within four years. He just might do it. I believe that we will have men on Mars before this decade is out.

Culture of Life, Aawia, Horatius Cocles, United massachusetts, and 2 othersThe Catholic State of Eire, and The holy hobos of the holy land

United massachusetts

Phydios wrote:This is huge. For the first time since 2011, Americans launched into space from American soil on an American spacecraft. Musk wants to have unmanned cargo missions to Mars within two years, and manned missions within four years. He just might do it. I believe that we will have men on Mars before this decade is out.

I hope so. I will put aside my personal disdain for Musk in hope that SpaceEx does well going forward.

A new regional poll is up: What regional issue is most important to you?

Nominations for the presidential election will open on Monday. Voting will open on June 8th.

The Rouge Christmas State and United massachusetts

Also, I'm accepting proposals for the next regional poll. Post them here.

The Rouge Christmas State and United massachusetts

For Culture of Life, a clarihew:

President Donald Trump
Many consider a nasty, orangish lump,
The rest absolve him of every sin,
Except those who don't know where to begin.

I believe you've selected the third option.

Fatty the Marmot wrote:For Culture of Life, a clarihew:

President Donald Trump
Many consider a nasty, orangish lump,
The rest absolve him of every sin,
Except those who don't know where to begin.

I believe you've selected the third option.

Him and me both.

At the moment for me the most important is having fun in nation states. I have my NS role-play region, so I no longer push for a giant reform in this region. I have a lot of friends here back from the times when I was commonly called a commie and Peter was commonly called a fascist... Good times by the way... I am staying in this region for fun and for the friends I made along the way. I don't see a need in making a big deal of my ministry, since most people here are either very western-centered or religious nations anyway, thus making most role-plays kind of a European Union/United States simulation. I do have plans for role-plays though, but I would be more than happy to have them happen off-site, for this region would not be the same if my initiative changed it and certainly having a stigma of being "the bad toxic region" even though we have a lot of allies and influence in the NS overall is pretty fun. As well as the entire WA hogwash... I love just going to the resolution and playing bets with myself for what did UM vote xD

Culture of Life, The Rouge Christmas State, United massachusetts, The Catholic State of Eire, and 1 otherNorthern and southern texas

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