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Cranmangolandia

Cartorian Empire wrote:Poo poo pee pee

pee pee poo poo

Archduchess veronica de karnstein wrote:Historically, Augustus was an imperial honorific given to the first Roman emperor by the Senate, how could it be an honorific for a head of government? I mean, isn't the Imperator supposed to be Augustus since it is so? Just asking.Personally, I feel like the Imperial House of Osman is the legitimate claimant to the Roman Empire since Mehmed stylized himself Cæsar after the siege of Byzantium in 1453. I've read that, 10 years after the capture of Byzantium, the Padishah walked over the ruins of Troy and had boasted he avenged the Trojans by conquering the Greeks. I've read the Iliad the way Ottoman fans read it; it was then my feelings for Turkey was born.

Augustus was an honorific, until like the Diadochi times, when you had the Augustus and the Caesars. No longer honorific at that point. I guess the Consuls could be renamed to Caesars, but that would be a little messy now, and a little cliche for us Roman regions. I've tried to strike a balance between Old Empire and Diadochi times in Roman history; keeping the Princeps as the head of the Assembly (senate), while also using multiple Consuls (like Caesars in Diadochi times) as regional government.

Demonos ministry of foreign affairs wrote:Archduchess veronica de karnstein,

I've never heard of this story. Question though, As Mehmed's claims were made did he adopt Roman culture out of a natural adoption (i.e. living as a Byzantine as Justinian and Theodora) or out of the benefit of the autocratic power of Cæsar? Does padisha imply an emperor backed by a senate or an autocrat without democracy?

The only problem is that Mehmed never was, and never succeeded, in becoming a native Byzantine. He was a foreign power, and logic dictates that he should not be considered the rightful ruler to the Byzantine throne.

Demonos ministry of foreign affairs

Archduchess veronica de karnstein

Dingoy wrote:Augustus was an honorific, until like the Diadochi times, when you had the Augustus and the Caesars. No longer honorific at that point. I guess the Consuls could be renamed to Caesars, but that would be a little messy now, and a little cliche for us Roman regions. I've tried to strike a balance between Old Empire and Diadochi times in Roman history; keeping the Princeps as the head of the Assembly (senate), while also using multiple Consuls (like Caesars in Diadochi times) as regional government.

This is exactly the reason why I cordially - and I utterly mean it - have a disdain for the Dominate and its government system, what do you call, tetrarchy.

When I read Diocletian deciding to split the Empire into west and east halves it makes me believe that rather the decision to split the Empire to two I percieve that, rather holding them united in time of crisis the split had it done badly than good. Not that the Dominate is way despotic, but Roman emperors at that time are forced to share power with so-called co-emperors, another reason why I cordially - and still I mean it - dislike that period of the Empire very, very much. Just saying.

Dingoy wrote:The only problem is that Mehmed never was, and never succeeded, in becoming a native Byzantine. He was a foreign power, and logic dictates that he should not be considered the rightful ruler to the Byzantine throne.

At least he's not Greek unlike the Byzantines, who are mostly ethnically Greek and less Roman. Last time the Byzantines stopped being Roman, the gap has widened between both eastern and western cultures in the Mediterranean since the death of Justinian and then the Schism of 1054, which compliments the reason why Greeks aren't Romans and Romans not Greeks.

Had the Orthodox Christians under the late Palaiologos dynasty managed to rally beside the 1438 Council of Florence-Ferrara to 'heal' the Great Schism they would have saved Byzantium from the Ottomans with the aid of the Catholic west. But it is too late. The Latins' squabbling and their inability to unify against the Ottomans as well as the Greeks' own defeat proved so much to Holy Byzantium that Greece, as had before in ancient Roman times, has been conquered by its former conqueror, but in the form of the Ottomans.

As I reiterated in Lewisham, Byzantine legacy exactly correlated with Panhellenism (which is far from Roman) as the Panhellenist movement revered that part of the Roman Empire in Greece where Orthodox Christianity superseded the old gods of ancient Rome.

So you might be guessing I might agree with Gennadius II Scholarius, the Archbishop of Byzantium, among others who recognized Mehmed as Caesar which upsets the West after they've cried buckets of tears for the city's downfall.

Demonos ministry of foreign affairs wrote:I've never heard of this story. Question though, As Mehmed's claims were made did he adopt Roman culture out of a natural adoption (i.e. living as a Byzantine as Justinian and Theodora) or out of the benefit of the autocratic power of Cæsar?

Mehmed knew the Iliad and yes, there are some evidences of him walking on the ruins of ancient Troy:

    "According to Spanish traveler Pero Tafur, the public in Istanbul said: "Turks will avenge Troy" in 1437, when he visited the city. During Istanbul's conquest, it was mentioned that the great Turk, Mehmed II, dedicated his victory in the name of revenge for the Trojan virgin who was raped at the Pallas Sanctuary.

    "Giovanni Mario Filelfo blamed the Greeks for their own defeat and the Latins for their inability to unite against Mehmed the Conqueror in his poetic work titled "Amyris," where he described the life and conquests of the sultan. In fact, he often praised the Ottoman sultan. He presented the sultan's victory over the Greeks as a triumph of justice, drawing attention to the fact that Mehmed II was a descendant of the Trojans. In the end, the revenge of the treacherous conquest of Troy by the Greeks was taken. Rodrigo Sanchez Arevalo also legitimized the Ottomans' defeat of Greece as the rightful revenge of Trojan descendants.

    "Historian Stefanos Yerasimos says Turks are actually brethren according to this Trojan rumor, which became widespread in the Renaissance. He says that it is also fictionalized that they are relatives of Aeneas, the founder of Rome, after they took over Istanbul; the empire did not disappear but simply stayed in the same family."

Source: https://www.dailysabah.com/feature/2019/01/30/trojans-ancestors-of-anatolian-civilizations/amp

As to the second question, I most wholeheartedly agree with the second. He benefited from the autocratic power of the Roman title as he was a big fan of Imperial Rome pretty well, at least an avid reader of both Iliad and Aeneid.

Demonos ministry of foreign affairs wrote:Does padisha imply an emperor backed by a senate or an autocrat without democracy?

The title padişah is Persian for "master king" (from pād + shah; the former being cognate with the Sanskrit pati), and ranks above shāhānshāh (king of kings). It is one of the Ottoman sovereign's main titles, besides the title of Khagan and Sulṭānü's-Selāṭīn.

By the way, if you are watching the 1984 film Dune, you'll notice that there is a universe-spanning empire known as the Galactic Padishah Empire which is ruled by the Padishah Emperor.

Demonos ministry of foreign affairs and Oldwick

Post self-deleted by Archduchess veronica de karnstein.

Archduchess veronica de karnstein wrote:This is exactly the reason why I cordially - and I utterly mean it - have a disdain for the Dominate and its government system, what do you call, tetrarchy.

When I read Diocletian deciding to split the Empire into west and east halves it makes me believe that rather the decision to split the Empire to two I percieve that, rather holding them united in time of crisis the split had it done badly than good. Not that the Dominate is way despotic, but Roman emperors at that time are forced to share power with so-called co-emperors, another reason why I dislike that period of the Empire very much. Just saying.
At least he's not Greek unlike the Byzantines, who are mostly ethnically Greek and less Roman. Last time the Byzantines stop being Roman, a gap widened between both eastern and western cultures in the Mediterranean since the death of Justinian, which compliments the reason why Greeks aren't Romans and Romans not Greeks. Had the Orthodox Christians managed to recognize the decision of the Council of Florence-Ferrara to reconcile both West and East together and seek the help of the European kingdoms against the Ottoman tide they would have won Byzantium, but it's too late. The Latins' squabbling and the Greeks' ineptitude proved to Byzantium that Greece has been conquered by its former conqueror.

As I reiterated in Lewisham, Byzantine legacy exactly correlated with Panhellenism (which is far from Roman) as the Panhellenist movement revered that part of the Roman Empire in Greece where Orthodox Christianity superseded the old gods of ancient Rome.

Also Muscovy's claim to the Eastern Roman Empire is a practical joke. The Muscovites, too, were a foreign power, they have been at odds with Byzantium religiously and politically. The proclamation of the Tsardom of Muscovy as the "Third Rome" makes even the concept of imperial autocracy the worst thing to ever exist in reality since the end of feudalism - as the Muscovites are nothing more than a mixture of barbaric, tribalist bloodlines from the Moksels who have inhabited northern Russia and the renegades that rejected the primacy of Kievan Rus' in favor of the Suzdal princes.

So you might be guessing I might agree with Gennadius II Scholarius, the Archbishop of Byzantium, among others who recognized Mehmed as Caesar which upsets the West after they've cried buckets of tears for the city's downfall.
Mehmed knew the Iliad and yes, there are some evidences of him walking on the ruins of ancient Troy:

    "According to Spanish traveler Pero Tafur, the public in Istanbul said: "Turks will avenge Troy" in 1437, when he visited the city. During Istanbul's conquest, it was mentioned that the great Turk, Mehmed II, dedicated his victory in the name of revenge for the Trojan virgin who was raped at the Pallas Sanctuary.

    "Giovanni Mario Filelfo blamed the Greeks for their own defeat and the Latins for their inability to unite against Mehmed the Conqueror in his poetic work titled "Amyris," where he described the life and conquests of the sultan. In fact, he often praised the Ottoman sultan. He presented the sultan's victory over the Greeks as a triumph of justice, drawing attention to the fact that Mehmed II was a descendant of the Trojans. In the end, the revenge of the treacherous conquest of Troy by the Greeks was taken. Rodrigo Sanchez Arevalo also legitimized the Ottomans' defeat of Greece as the rightful revenge of Trojan descendants.

    "Historian Stefanos Yerasimos says Turks are actually brethren according to this Trojan rumor, which became widespread in the Renaissance. He says that it is also fictionalized that they are relatives of Aeneas, the founder of Rome, after they took over Istanbul; the empire did not disappear but simply stayed in the same family."

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailysabah.com/feature/2019/01/30/trojans-ancestors-of-anatolian-civilizations/amp

(As to the second question, I agree with the second.)

Whether the Ottomans came from the steppes or not, their actions, not their ethnicity, shows them that they're worthy. Given the fact that Islamophobic, anti-Turk, nativist far-right Hellenists are marching across the streets of Istanbul demanding that the Hagia Sophia be converted into an exclusive Orthodox church, and refugee ships be torpedoed into Bosphorus waters, this legend serves as a testimony to this world that no matter whether its people came from the Anatolics, Europe or even as far as the New World, the Iliad will say something of Aeneas descendants - including Mehmed, that Roman citizenship is not defined by ethnicity or religion. The existence of the polis confirms the reason that people come together for a common future, no matter where they come from or where they live.
The term padişah is Persian for "master king", and this title ranks above shāhānshāh (king of kings). It is one of the Ottoman sovereign's main titles, besides the title of Khagan and Sultan.

Also it is rendered as badshah when refering to the sovereign of the Mughal Empire.

First, I made a mistake - I mixed up the Diadochi and the tetrarchy. Oops.

Second - It may look like I pretend to know the full extent of what happened after the fall of the West, but I don't. I'm merely a student to history, in the literal and philosophical sense. I see your reasoning with the claim that the Ottomans deserve to be called the continuation of the empire, and I do in a sense agree. The Ottomans deserve to be called as such. However, the Ottomans aren't Romans. The Byzantines, though Greek, were the legal and logical continuation of the Empire. I think Mehmed deserves the title Caesar; I look up to him as a scholar and ruler. But the Ottoman Empire is not the successor or the continuation of the Roman Empire. I haven't formed an opinion as of just yet on who was the continuation of the Empire.

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Pee pee poo poo

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Post self-deleted by Foldaka.

Hello! We're glad to finally have an open embassy with y'all, people!

Here, have some Zapolyarny vodka from Imperiya Snezhnaya, Dandelion wine from Monsdtadt, some non-alcoholic beverages and freshly cooked cookies from all of our member states!

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Greetings from the Aquatic Autonomous republic of Triph

we are happy to be invited into Aurrelius

Archduchess veronica de karnstein

Dingoy wrote:It may look like I pretend to know the full extent of what happened after the fall of the West, but I don't. I'm merely a student to history, in the literal and philosophical sense. I see your reasoning with the claim that the Ottomans deserve to be called the continuation of the empire, and I do in a sense agree. The Ottomans deserve to be called as such. However, the Ottomans aren't Romans. The Byzantines, though Greek, were the legal and logical continuation of the Empire. I think Mehmed deserves the title Caesar; I look up to him as a scholar and ruler. But the Ottoman Empire is not the successor or the continuation of the Roman Empire. I haven't formed an opinion as of just yet on who was the continuation of the Empire.

The Ottomans aren't Roman, ethnically, and to mistake Roman for ethnic is claiming that the Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne and his posterity in the West is more Roman than the Byzantine Empire or otherwise. But the Ottomans are, in spirit, more Roman than the Greeks as the Greeks of that time are more on Church liturgy and rites than on the classics (the Iliad and Aeneid) as their pagan ancestors. While the Eastern churches blatanly forsook classical Greco-Roman culture for mere abstractism and Christian dogma, ritual and tradition, the West is trying its best to imitate the classics, mostly Greek than Roman, which downpours even the very concept of myth.

Dingoy wrote:I'm merely a student to history, in the literal and philosophical sense.

While you only rely on historical facts very much that it adds up to the disregard of all myth as the most reliable source in history, I am convinced that myth is more powerful than fact. Not all facts are truth, although facts tend to be based on truth.

Yes, I am much of a history student, not in the literal and philosophical sense as you are, but rather divergent. I am more on mythological narrative than factual narrative, as I believe myths have the power to change the world as I comprehend it my way. I believe that the most boring thing when it comes to historical discussion is the abstract, complex, redundancy of historical fact, and that's the reason why I crammed out in class taking up notes over a long period of time.

When I say the Byzantines aren't Roman as the classical Romans I say they did not comprehend myth really carefully, just as any classical Roman was in the pre-Christian past. The Byzantines were so much on religious dogma that it became their myth, and are the worst in suppressing what is pagan even in uncivilized and/or un-Christianized areas, so are the Catholics in both the Dark and Medieval ages.

Dingoy wrote:The Byzantines, though Greek, were the legal and logical continuation of the Empire.

And if they were 'legal and logical' successors to Rome, does that omit out the mythical narrative that their champion, Achilles, laid siege to the city of Troy by an invading army of Greeks of various tribes? Byzantines should know that rather looking up to the Hermoniakos' Iliad as the only source of Trojan myth in their time, they should know that Troy is Rome's mythical successor, according to the Aeneid, thus leading them to be convinced that Byzantium is not a legal and logical successor to Troy let alone mythical.

Oh, and before the modern-day Hellennist irredentists ever try to stake a claim on Istanbul as part of their "Megali Idea"/Greater Greece plan, they must apologize to Troy first.

Dingoy wrote:I haven't formed an opinion as of just yet on who was the continuation of the Empire.

What are you going to debunk claims first, the Tsardom of Muscovy?

hi, i am the glitched islands of dellettia!

Triph wrote:Greetings from the Aquatic Autonomous republic of Triph

we are happy to be invited into Aurrelius

Welcome! Sorry for the late reply, was busy. Please make sure to join our Discord chat server, and consider joining the WA and endorsing Daskavia!

Dellettia wrote:hi, i am the glitched islands of dellettia!

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On The Poll, It Should Belong To Poland.

how about syrian crimea
/S

Iwaku capitalists wrote:how about syrian crimea
/S

That's even worse!

Hyperico Founder wrote:On The Poll, It Should Belong To Poland.

Nie.

Hyperico Founder and Iwaku capitalists

Dingoy wrote:That's even worse!

exactly the joke
applauds dingoy

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And I see Bojlers is already on there. Thanks!

On the poll, it should belong to Lichtenstein

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